Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement



Lsparrish[edit]

Lsparrish is given a logged warning to avoid edit warring or promotion of fringe material on articles under discretionary sanctions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:20, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Lsparrish[edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
JzG (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 17:21, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
Lsparrish (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions :

Requesting a topic ban from fringe science topics.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 

Lsparrish is basically a WP:SPA advancing the fringe field of cryonics, an area which is a long-term focus of civil POV pushing by advocates of the commercially lucrative but scientifically insupportable freezing of recently deceased individuals, or parts thereof (normally the brain).

  1. 31 August 2019 Mainspace ediot tagging Cryonics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) as {{npov}} in WP:1AM dispute, reverted by Daviid Gerard
  2. 8 September 2019 Mainspace edit adding freeze/thaw of a nemetode - irrelevant to crynocis as sold to humans, reverted by me
  3. 10 September 2019 Series of edits advancing pro-cryionics POV, reverted by David Gerard
  4. 10 September 2019 Mainspace edit tagging Cryonics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) as {{npov}} in WP:1AM dispute, reverted by Roxy the dog
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

See [1]. Edits to:

These support fringe views pretty much consistently. Lsparrish has occasionally tried to make these articles less like sci-fi and mroe like an encyclopaedia (e.g. [2]) but the overall weight of contributions is consistently to advance a field that is, bluntly, a scam.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[3]

Discussion concerning Lsparrish[edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Lsparrish[edit]

Hello everyone. It is good to see more eyes on these edits, as well as constructive comments from uninvolved editors.

I fully acknowledge that cryonics is unproven and does not enjoy general acceptance. However, I feel I have raised reasonable concerns with the current text of the Cryonics article. I would be interested in resolving these in collaboration with others if permitted to to so.

As you can probably tell, I'm still getting the hang of editing Wikipedia, and some of the rules as to what is considered edit-warring are still a bit opaque to me. I've been mostly puzzled by the very rapid (and often accompanied by snarky and/or accusatory comments) reverts to my recent changes on the article, which were (I thought) not particularly POV pushing, rather the opposite. I hoped that a few reverts here and there of these seemingly hostile reverts would draw additional scrutiny from uninvolved editors. Edit warring, according to my previous understanding of the concept, involves attempts to wear out the opposition with repetitive reverts, something I've never purposely done and have no intention to do under any circumstance.

Regarding my comments on Talk being basically POV pushing, it may be that I've been a bit more verbose or stubborn than was merited. I've tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to strike a balance between pushing back on extreme POV (which seems to be that anything speculative must therefore be fraud) and the demands of brevity / Wikipedia's scope. Cryonics has been marketed as speculative from the beginning, and I'm hopeful that further sources will be found noting that this is actually okay, regardless of whether I'm involved in the article's future development.

That being said, I'd be grateful for another chance to get this right, and welcome any feedback on how to do a better job and be a better editor. Lsparrish (talk) 23:28, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by David Gerard[edit]

Lsparrish has an extensive history of attempting to edit-war WP:PROFRINGE edits into the article, and long-winded and tendentious justification of his edit-warring on the talk page - look at the history and talk for many examples. He has been warned several times, both on his own talk page and the article talk page, that discretionary sanctions exist in the area, and is quite aware. It would be good if this stopped, but he's been promoting cryonics online for at least the last nine years, and there's no visible reason to say he'll stop even if he were to claim he would - David Gerard (talk) 22:09, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Levivich[edit]

Thoughts from an uninvolved editor:

  1. Regardless of anything else, there no consensus on the talk page for the NPOV tag or for Lsparrish's changes. It seems like a classic WP:1AM situation at Talk:Cryonics.
  2. Regardless of anything else, including 3RR, there is clear edit warring shown on the article's history, right up to today.
  3. Edits like this and this (both from today), and this (a month ago) shows, to me, repeated attempts to insert a specific pro-cryonics POV.
  4. Random House is not really the best publisher for scientific or academic information, IMO.
  5. Cryonics#Reception has a lot of sources establishing cryonics as fringe.
  6. In addition, I did a quick search, and was able to come up with many examples (not all of this is in the publisher's voice, some are quotes from scientists):
    • This list from NIH says it all to me: "Through the centuries, a variety of anti-aging approaches have recurred. Among them have been alchemy, the use of precious metals ... grafts (or injected extracts) from the testicles, ovaries, or glands of various animal species; ... consumption of elixirs, ointments, drugs, hormones, dietary supplements, and specific foods; cryonics; and rejuvenation from devices and exposure to various substances such as mineral and thermal springs"
    • NYTimes "other fringe fields like cryonics"
    • Chicago Tribune "generally viewed as a fringe pseudoscience"
    • WaPo "science fiction at its worst"
    • LATimes "After 23 years on the fringe, however, cryonics is clearly evolving from cult phenomenon into California’s latest--and perhaps most troubled--growth industry"
    • Skeptics Magazine "the stuff of science fiction and pseudoscientific web sites"
    • This Oxford book by the publisher of Skeptics magazine lists Cryonics between acupuncture and Omega Point.
  • I was going to say, "but it's a new editor with 170 edits, let's give them a warning". However, looking at their talk page, I can see that over the last three months, they've been given three warnings from three different editors (none of which are the filer). Unfortunately, these warnings have not effected any change in behavior.
  • There may be a conversation to be had about how to portray cryonics, but it's not by edit warring or taking a 1AM position. There needs to be compromises; sources put forward; text proposed; !votes made, and–regardless of anything else–consensus needs to be followed, and sticks should remain on the ground. Levivich 14:49, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Buffs[edit]

I was going to add my two cents in here and had a list of things I'd found...

Suffice to say "what Levivich said" is sufficient/spot on. Buffs (talk) 19:10, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by JFG[edit]

This is essentially a content dispute. The editor under scrutiny has been warned against pushing fringe POV, and s/he welcomes a civil debate on the wording of the article. No sanction necessary. — JFG talk 10:34, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by JzG[edit]

Lsparrish says I have raised reasonable concerns with the current text of the Cryonics article. I would be interested in resolving these in collaboration with others if permitted to to so, and he has indeed argued for it, while edit-warring {{npov}} into the article, but this misses the crucial point that after a long period of arguing this view, he is failing to accept the consensus that his changes are excessively WP:PROFRINGE. Content disputes are easy to deal with. Editors who refuse to take "no" for an answer, are what sanctions are for. This is one of those cases. This is not a report asking admins to weigh up whether cryonics is quackery, and if so, whether this should be stated in Wiki voice. It's about an editor with an admitted fringe POV edit-warring on an article under discretionary sanctions, after being warned. We block or TBAN people for disrupting articles under sanction in WP:1AM disputes even if they are right. Guy (help!) 15:51, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Calton[edit]

        • I did not mean to imply anything else.
        • No, that's exactly what you did, when took pieces of the article by Pein and stitched them together so it said the opposite of what the full quotation said. I mean, you had to actively work to get around the "entirely undue aura of respectability" in the middle of the sentence.
        • An article in The Baffler is not an excellent source.
Yet it was good enough to use as a rebuttal when it suited your purposes. --Calton | Talk 06:27, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken[edit]

The discussion below gives the false impression that the sentence "It is a pseudoscience,[3] and its practice is quackery" is the lead sentence of the article. It is not. The lede sentence is a technical description. It is followed by the very reasonable observation that mainstream science regards cryonics with skepticism. Only then does the above sentence appear.

There is value -- even in a neutral encyclopedia -- in saying things directly and without caveats. Cryonics is indeed a pseudoscience, and its practice is indeed quackery. Saying anything less definitive would be deceptive and a disservice to our readers. I suggest that those below arguing that the sentence above is "unencyclopedic" or that there is some amount of doubt about the nature of cryonics would be better advised to do some research about it rather than to shoot from the hip. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:57, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit]

Result concerning Lsparrish[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • This certainly does look like POV pushing. There is also a pattern of edit warring. Lsparrish has tagged the article for POV issues five times in the last two weeks [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] and is now edit warring to reinstate one of the edits JzG linked to above [9]. I would support a sanction here. Hut 8.5 21:15, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
  • This is an absolutely clear breach of the standards of behaviour required for any articles under discretionary sanctions. Lsparrish was made aware of these, but continued, nonetheless. I believe a topic ban from all pages related to pseudoscience and fringe science would be appropriate. I suggest that an indefinite term, reviewable after six months, would provide them with the opportunity to demonstrate their bona fides in other areas of the encyclopedia. --RexxS (talk) 22:25, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Lsparrish is unfailingly polite, as the complaint here acknowledges. He even seems downright pleasant on the talk pages. He refers to articles published in seemingly reputable scientific journals and book series. I'm a bit confused and maybe there's some context I'm missing – am I a total fruitcake for thinking many of his points are reasonable? Haukur (talk) 10:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
    • It's classic WP:CPUSH coupled with edit-warring to insert that POV. The whole reason we had an ArbCom case and discretionary sanctions was because of editing such as this. It's possible to cherry-pick studies to make all sorts of crackpot theories look respectable, when the mainstream opinion regards the issue as so fringe/pseudoscientific that any serious scientist who advocates those theories would indeed be considered a "fruitcake". The only people who take seriously the conjecture that frozen corpses might one day be reanimated are those desperate not to die and those who stand to make a lot of money out of that desperation. We have discretionary sanctions in this area for a reason, and this is a compelling instance of it. --RexxS (talk) 13:01, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
      • There's plenty of pseudoscience out there and we should certainly be on our guard against it. Look at the sources in Homeopathy, where we have multiple scientific articles to back up the assertion that it is indeed pseudoscience. The sources backing up the sentence in Cryonics that I quoted seem much less impressive, as Lsparrish has correctly pointed out. Cryonics is widely viewed with skepticism, it's unproven, it's speculative, it's not mainstream, it may never work. All this can be adequately backed up and should be asserted in the lead – and it was in the lead in what appears to me to have been a fairer (if imperfect) summary of what reliable sources say.[10] The categorical sentence asserting without any qualifications that cryonics is quackery and pseudoscience is new as of last month. It's not an NPOV reflection of the sources and it's explicitly contradicted even by one of its own citations. Lsparrish has a perfectly reasonable case here in regarding the current text as biased. Haukur (talk) 13:39, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
        • Cryonics is categorically quackery by any definition of the word, and the reputable sources say just that, contrary to your assertion otherwise. WP:ASF requires us to assert statements without qualification when they are made by reliable sources and not contradicted by other equally reliable sources. That is the case here. --RexxS (talk) 15:23, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • One thing Lsparrish objects to is this very categorical sentence currently in the lead: "It is a pseudoscience, and its practice is quackery." His concerns seem reasonable since the sentence is not even a fair summary of the very sources that are cited in support of it. The first one I checked, Schechter 2009, has a pretty balanced discussion, including this: "Many scientists deride it as a form of high-tech quackery. ... Other equally prominent scientists, however, are not so quick to dismiss it"[11] As far as I can see, Lsparrish is making reasonable efforts at attaining NPOV text based on reliable sources. I object to any one-sided sanctioning of him. Haukur (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Another citation for the pseudoscience-and-quackery sentence is to an article in The Baffler which describes itself as "America’s leading voice of interesting and unexpected left-wing political criticism, cultural analysis, short stories, poems and art." A weird place to look in for an authoritative source on something like this, but let's see what we have. The author is Corey Pein, a journalist best known for his book on the "Savage Heart of Silicon Valley". And, yes, this article too is a denunciation of those evil capitalists in Silicon Valley. Pein sure isn't impressed with cryonics, that much is right.[12] But even this source does not back up a picture of universal condemnation. On the contrary, the article positions itself as fighting against a rising tide of respectability for cryonics. It mentions a cryonics company enjoying "a reputational boost in recent years" and apparently "the reputation of cryonics" itself has been "rescued" and it has gained an "aura of respectability as the thought leaders of Silicon Valley have trained their enterprising, disruptive vision on the conquest of disease and death." The article mentions favorable coverage of cryonics in multiple mainstream sources. And it mentions, disapprovingly, that there are "university-affiliated researchers" doing cryonics stuff. This is a source meant to back up cryonics being uncontroversially quackery and pseudoscience and it very much fails at doing that. That's two sources I've looked into and both paint a very different picture than the sentence they are being cited for. Haukur (talk) 14:18, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm sorry, Haukurth but this is plain nonsense. Nobody can read [13] and take away the same impression that you portray. The entire article is a condemnation of cryonics as money-grubbing quackery. The actual quote is "In recent years, cryonics has regained an entirely undue aura of respectability as the thought leaders of Silicon Valley have trained their enterprising, disruptive vision on the conquest of disease and death." and by missing out the "entirely undue" qualifier, you create a spin that does not exist in the article. The sources are clear; cryonics is quackery; and Lsparrish is clearly in breach of the discretionary sanctions. --RexxS (talk) 15:24, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
      • I totally agree that the article by Pein is a strident denunciation of cryonics. I did not mean to imply anything else. But it's also a source saying cryonics has been growing in respectability, which is relevant information for how we should portray it. The word 'quackery' is very strong and we would need many excellent sources to be able to assert it. An article in The Baffler is not an excellent source. The Society for Cryobiology Position Statement from November 2018 might be the most authoritative and up-to-date mainstream source and it uses the wording "speculation or hope, not science".[14] Haukur (talk) 15:29, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Since I have never worked in this field I needed to begin with reading articles and sources and getting up to speed. I call them as I see them and I don't apologize for that. But I have to admit that I have got a bit sidetracked here – AE is a place to discuss user conduct and not to get into the weeds of article wording. And it is true that Lsparrish has engaged in some edit warring and if someone wants to give him, say, a 24 hour block for that, then I don't strongly object. But it still seems to me that he has been bringing valuable sources, discussion and balance to the cryonics pages and I think we would be undermining ourselves if he were topic-banned. Haukur (talk) 15:48, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I would take no action. The discussion between Haukurth and others indicates that this is a content dispute about how to describe cryonics. AE doesn't resolve content disputes. Sandstein 16:12, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
    • This is not a content dispute, because there is no dispute about how to describe cryonics. It is pseudoscientific quackery and all the respectable sources say so. This is solely a behavioural issue. --RexxS (talk) 20:53, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I would oppose a sanction for now. Writing "It is pseudoscience, and its practice is quackery." in the 1st paragraph of Cryonics is sloppy, not very encyclopedic, and it deserves criticism, not for being inaccurate, but for not having the dispassionate tone we look for in encyclopedia articles. More importantly, Lsparrish seems like they're capable of learning to put the encyclopedia above their personal beliefs. ~Awilley (talk) 03:34, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I share the concerns raised by several other administrators. Even if it is true that cryonics is "quackery", I certainly think the concern over using that actual term in an encyclopedia article is a legitimate one to raise (and I'm as anti-woo as they make 'em). If the fact is that it's woo, the article certainly should demonstrate that, but we don't need to hit people over the head with it like that. The article on Adolf Hitler does not lead in with "Adolf Hitler was a murderous, genocidal monster", not because he wasn't, but because that's not the tone we use for articles. So, I believe this is a legitimate content dispute, and I would therefore not support sanctions. (However, I would caution LSparrish to be careful nonetheless—if it gets to the point that you're trying to edit articles to present woo as something legitimate, or even "maybe" legitimate, then I'll sanction without a second's hesitation.) Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:41, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Given that the discussion seems to have ended, I would seem to think that there is not at this time a consensus that sanctions are needed, though perhaps a caution to Lsparrish regarding edit warring and general conduct on DS-covered articles may be in order. However, since there were several who disagreed, I'd like to ask if there are any objections to that before moving forward with that as the result. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:35, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree with a logged caution. Bishonen | talk 21:42, 14 September 2019 (UTC).
  • I don't object to a caution. Maybe you could throw in some advice for him. Haukur (talk) 22:20, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I concur with Seraphim and Awilley above. Certain editors get very carried away when writing about these topics and forget to write informatively in neutral and dispassionate language. I miss the days when WP:MORALIZE was part of NPOV. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 11:06, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Lo meiin[edit]

Not currently actionable, but Lo meiin is warned to avoid battleground-like conduct. Sandstein 07:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Lo meiin[edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
WarKosign (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 18:56, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
Lo meiin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 (as well as WP:1RR and WP:CIV)
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 
  1. September 18 A revert in the I/P area, which they are not supposed to be editing at all
  2. September 18 Second revert within minutes
  1. September 11 Personal attack
  2. September 17 battleground mentality
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 

None, a new user

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

Lo meiin is a new user who immediately took interest in the I/P area. They opened multiple garbled RFCs (1, 2, 3), two of them on the same article at the same time. Responded in uncivil manner to an opinion they didn't like and repeatedly made significant POV changes against consensus.

Regarding the connection to WP:ARBIPWP:ARBPIA - at List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Asia the user made many edits, most of them adjusting the table entry on State of Palestine according to their POV: [15]. I agree that most of the article is not relevant to WP:ARBIPWP:ARBPIA, but entry on SoP is, even without "broadly construed". This came after their edit request was rejected and an RFC State of Palestine didn't seem to go the way they wanted. WarKosign 19:29, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
My understanding that an article containing (among many other things) descriptions of Israel and State of Palestine and their partial recognition *is* related to the conflict. Perhaps my interpretation is broad, but this is what WP:ARBPIA tells us to do: "The area of conflict in this case shall be considered to be the entire set of Arab-Israeli conflict-related articles, broadly interpreted". WarKosign 20:26, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
If you still disagree with my interpretation - sorry about wasting your time. I would appreciate a clarification. However, before you dismiss the case I would ask you to clarify to Lo meiin that DS topics are not a good starting place for a new editor, and that they should be civil and avoid edit wars. I'm afraid that otherwise the user will soon repeat the same pattern on an article that is directly relevant to A-I conflict without any need for broad interpretation. WarKosign 20:56, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

Notified

Discussion concerning Lo meiin[edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Lo meiin[edit]

First of all I’d like to begin by refuting the allegations made against me. I started out filing an admin notice on auh20s talk page as I saw he is engaged in editing conflict with some editors not as a personal attack but as an appropriate means of dispute resolution. I’ve also requested countless RFCs, 3O before editing, and I even recognized where I went wrong apologized and learned from the experience in order to grow as an new editor. In addition, even after I apologized, I was labelled profanely as a “punk”, despite condemning previous personal attacks on auh20 republican by other editors. Why I combined both generally and substantially recognized states in Asia together is to avoid contention over the issue and satisfy all parties to the dispute. In addition, I attempted to present the facts in an NPOV manner by plainly and objectively stating the facts and by making no significant changes to Taiwan and Palestine’s labelling. Despite my personal reservations on the issue and me being mainland Chinese, I conceded to labelling Taiwan as a “country” for the sake of Wikipedia. Auh20 and his ally warkosign (who happens to be Israeli, making him POV on the issue) are once again hungry for conflict by reverting these edits, possibly due to their bias towards Israel over Palestine. I would also like to mention that auh20 has made several reverts to already established articles that group un member and observer states together to impose his view without previous consent. I suggest combining the two categories together to end this ceaseless feud and to turn to a new chapter on Wikipedia; and if this request is granted, I will vow never to edit any Arab- Israeli related articles until I am a confirmed user.

Lo meiin (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Nableezy[edit]

There was supposed to be some sort of clarification on broadly vs reasonably construed and what is subject to the edit-restriction. AFAIK, currently only articles that are themselves as a whole related to the conflict are covered, and edits elsewhere, such at Airbnb, and consequently List of sovereign states, are not. nableezy - 20:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Sir Joseph[edit]

ARBPIA 30/500 is clear and the amendment request referenced here is also clear. The article itself should not be under ECP but the editor should be blocked for violating ARBPIA 30/500 and for being disruptive. He was warned several times that he can't make edits in this subject area and that talk page edits are generally allowed if they're not being disruptive (I am not sure if RFC's are allowed). We had a similar case over at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive256#Bill_Josephs just a few days ago where a new user was behaving similarly and was blocked. This seems to me a clear case and not sure we need a drawn out AE action and most certainly don't need any more articles protected. Sir Joseph (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

On your part, you are in no position to tell me what to do in this matter when you yourself are a POV editor and advocate for the state of Israel

Lo meiin (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by AuH2ORepublican[edit]

  • In my defense, I reverted that article several times in order to try to return to the status quo ante (this after a week of imploring Lo meiin to seek consensus in the Talk page); other editors similarly reverted Lo meein during the past two weeks after his relentless, POV edits.
As for the editor's passive-aggressive insult to WarKosign, that was after he "learned" how to be civil. Not long ago, he accused me in an administrative noticeboard of "hav[ing] depicted Palestinians are [sic] a mindless, anti Semitic, radical and insolent people" (and I asked him to apologize for his calumny for weeks before he finally did so) and asked in a Talk page "And AuH20, food for thought, do you hate Palestinians and Taiwanese people yourself?", so his insults have become more nuanced and refined as time goes on. AuH2ORepublican (talk) 20:52, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • In reaction to Lo meiin's statement (see above), while I don't think that this is the correct forum to discuss the proper presentation of sovereign states in Wikipedia (the proper forum being the Talk pages of such articles), and thus will forgo doing so, I will respond to Lo meein's claim that I insulted him when I referred to him (in my own Talk page, in response to another editor urging me to press a harassment claim against Lo meein due to his persistent insults) as a "punk." As I responded to Lo meein when he chided me for the appellation in my Talk page:
I referred to you as a "punk" right after I was made aware that your latest cowardly insult to me was to add the following comment to a Talk page in which you already had insulted me: "And AuH20, food for thought, do you hate Palestinians and Taiwanese people yourself?" So I was being polite when I referred to you as a "punk" instead of using more appropriate words to describe you.
This also was after Lo meein insultingly had claimed that I "have depicted Palestinians are [sic] a mindless, anti Semitic, radical and insolent people," so, under the circumstances, my referring to him as a "punk" showed remarkable self-restraint on my part. Oh, and Lo meein did not apologize for his insults until afterwards, so, contrary to what Lo meein claims, I did not call him a "punk" after he already had apologized. AuH2ORepublican (talk) 00:31, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit]

Result concerning Lo meiin[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • I guess I'm struggling to figure out a connection to WP:ARBIP — that article is not under (any) discretionary sanctions El_C 19:13, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oh, WP:ARBPIA. Okay. But that article is still not under (any) discretionary sanctions. El_C 19:34, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Um. The edit is certainly related to Palestine, but the article isn't, and therefore isn't under discretionary sanctions. Therefore it isn't extended-protected (and never has been), so WarKosign is incorrect with this edit-summary. I do note that another editor, User:AuH2ORepublican has reverted seven times on that article in the last two days, including a 3RR violation, so perhaps a 1RR restriction (on the article) might be useful. (Incidentally, "you clearly have no political knowledge and probably failed your geography class ... Thank you and no offense intended" is superb, perhaps more users should follow this method if they have to be incivil). Black Kite (talk) 20:10, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Closed as not actionable. The article is not related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. The personal attack was prior to the DS notification. But we do have indications of battleground conduct, so I'm warning Lo meein to behave. If not, bans or blocks are likely. Sandstein 07:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

WikipediansSweep[edit]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning WikipediansSweep[edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
CaptainEek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 07:23, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
WikipediansSweep (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary_sanctions :
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 
  1. [16] Edit warring
  2. [17] Edit warring
  3. [18] Edit warring
  4. [19] Edit warring and editing while logged out
  5. [20] Very uncivil comment/borderline PA made at me while I was trying to calmly ask Bradv for advice
  6. [21] Barely sensical ramblings on WP:FTN
  7. [22] Claiming Einstein was a fringe scientist
  8. [23] Rather long rant that boils down to 1. strong bias for article in question 2. Pseudoscience ramblings 3. WP:BATTLEGROUND
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

[24] Alerted to DS in PSCI by Bradv on September 7

Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

I originally got pulled into this debate (on whether Walter Russell was a genius and discovered Plutonium before Niels Bohr, among other issues) as a result of a WP:3O request. I tried to be very calm, civil, and helpful, and took WikipediansSweeps less than civil behavior and WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality in stride. But after more than a week, its become clear that WikipediansSweep is a WP:SPA who strongly wants Walter Russell to be portrayed in their chosen POV. For additional evidence of WP:IDHT and WP:BATTLEGROUND, see Talk:Walter_Russell#Third_opinion, and Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Walter_Russell. Please let me know if I've done anything wrong in this request, I have never filed a claim at AE before, and the process is a bit confusing. I tried to be very patient with WikipediansSweep, and I'm dissapointed it had to come to this. Smooth sailing, Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 07:23, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[25]

Discussion concerning WikipediansSweep[edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by WikipediansSweep[edit]

Concerning the above comments in regards to changing or reverting edits that do not match the criteria prescribed recently does not seem to be ingeniune as i am actually finding sources which support the conclusions and statements i have undone edits on. One example is the Modern Leonardo claim about Walter Russell which I supported in the talk portion of the article. There have also been sweeping edits in regards to multiple paragraph deletions and other credibly sourced portions upon which i am now paying for subscriptions to support and to find. The fact this man was an architect, painter, sculptor, speaker, musician, ice skater, and inventor are all supported in my sources recently mentioned. I do not have a battle ground mentality but request sensible edits that do not step over the bounds to match someones point of view rather than find the material questionable without research. I do find a lot of edits sensible and have not touched those, but major edits in regards to things as simple as personal history to well documented sources and saying "read the rules" as its justification whenever it fails to even meet that criteria is a bit absurd. I admit to somewhat of senseless ramblings but let us be humble and admit our shortcomings and imperfections. I also do believe Einstein was somewhat fringe in the years he published his famous papers which were originally scorned and then brought up many worlds theory and how it was initially scorned, both were seemingly fringe at the time, the mentioned how planck stated that science progresses one funeral at a time. But there are some ramblings in there i do admit. But i am simply trying to publish the truth out into the world and am conforming to every standard i see that requires more due dilligence. For example there was major edits done in regards to this man bein a master musician, artist, sculptor, architect, and how was able to successfully defend his points in the new york times against outspoken scientist, where i have them, albeit clumsily in an failed embedded format, sourced. This man was also personal friends of thomas edison, mark twain, and theodore roosevelt, and many more outstanding people in our society. I also am using a mobile device for most of this if not nearly all so forgive my lagish response and failure to be more formal in multiple places such as this. I also am noting how many warnings i received and honestly have only gotten one on this end. Also my friend above, whom i thought i was in good standing with now due to my lengthy sourcing last night, originally deemed this man a kook, quack, and in my opinion shot from the hip and demanded major editing was required on this article due to simply being ill informed. Also it seems as if i am the one doing the most work on the page as i am the one find sources, and asking for validation on edits rather than "fringe stuff removed" sweeping edits that include many things not considered fringe. It was a mans unique universal perspective or philosophy if nothing more being removed as fringe to where it begets the concern on how philosophy itself doesn't classify into the same spectrum. All of which i have asked for clarity on in the talk page with some but not adequate response. So apologies as i am in an attempt to actually uncover the truth in a format befitting to all readers, not defend my point of view strictly in regards to this individual. But obviously one of the best painters, sculptors, architects, and considered by a considerable few a polymath does not seem to be quackery by any stretch of the imagination. There are articles of him giving edison medals of honor from his society and it seems almost foolish to see a man never deemed a quack in his time of prominence to be in our times deemed such by people whom lack the full information on him. I am doing my best with the little i have and do not adopt battle ground mentality but a sturdy one finding only support for my claims. I apologize if this is over my word count. (Added 10 minutes after original comment: as i said i have only received one warning on this end and admit to somewhat senseless ramblings, i am using a mobile device mostly due to situational standards, i do apologize for the lagginess and informality of much of my input, i also apologize for seemingly brutish behavior which is not intended as such, i am only trying to find the actual material accepted by standards laid out here and question the exact reasons behind some things not being seen as reasonable sources, and i have a very limited pallet, and somehow even with 10 other editors, i can, on my phone, validate many claims with dozenz of sources previously deemed kookie by other editors, that should be stating something, i hope to be in good standing and will continue to find other sources, something i was in the process of until i saw this) WikipediansSweep (talk) 08:15, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Additional: look i will take this as a formal warning because i am new to editing on wiki and for the most part am swamped in response complexities i find it hard to retort. I will cool it on my end and keep the discussion strictly professional and if there are further warnings you can ban me.

For now I'm the only one adding source information previously deemed unfindable and thrown to the way side with lack of scrutiny. It honestly seems as if no one is reading those either and it seems the edits go far beyond the bounds of normal desire to present the facts and instead with a scorn for something that goes against the mainstream. Almost as if the vigor against faith healing is applied to this. That is my two cents though, I would honestly love to hear advice and feedback as it seems many eyes will view this and would be beneficial.

WikipediansSweep (talk) 15:37, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit]

Result concerning WikipediansSweep[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • The request seems to have merit (pending a response by WikipediansSweep). I think a topic ban from fringe science, including Walter Russell, is in order. Sandstein 07:55, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
  • The rambling response by WikipediansSweep confirms my view. Sandstein 08:51, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Looks to me like a pretty clear indefinite topic ban from fringe science topics, broadly construed.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:03, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
  • This sort of issue is why the discretionary sanctions on pseudoscience article exist - endorse the indefinite topic ban, broadly construed - David Gerard (talk) 09:06, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Holy Crap Batman. Yes, a topic-ban is called for. It should be indefinite, and lifted only if they demonstrate the ability to be a net positive elsewhere. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:39, 19 September 2019 (UTC)